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Row takes its toll
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| WRANGLE: The controversial Minety site |
Gypsy Suzie Cole has spoken of the trauma she has suffered due to the ongoing legal wrangle over planning permission for the gypsy settlement at Minety.
Speaking at the planning inquiry chaired by inspector Karen Ridge yesterday she said the effect of not knowing whether her family would be allowed to stay has compounded her family's health problems.
She said: "I have been suffering with depression since January and my son has now been diagnosed with diabetes.
"People are really worried and not knowing where we will end up just adds to the stress and anxiety.
"I'm also suffering from gall stones and my daughter has had to have lumps removed from under her arms.
"I have separated from my husband as he has had to move into a home due to illness."
The gypsies are appealing against a decision by North Wiltshire District Council, which unanimously rejected an application in November from the travellers for permanent permission to remain at Sambourne Road. Sixteen gypsy families have been living on a field they bought, without planning consent, since August 2003.
Despite trying to find more suitable sites, Mrs Cole said she had not been successful. She said: "We have looked for other sites and have been around different estate agents who say nothing is suitable. One family have found another site and moved but we're are a close community and many of us are related so we don't want to be split up.
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| Inspector Karen Ridge |
"If we were evicted there would be nowhere for us to go, we'd be back by the side of the road."
Mrs Cole denied claims that a local resident, Mrs Highland, had received abuse from the gypsies. She said: "We haven't abused Mrs Highland, it's not in our nature to do anything like that."
Also giving evidence to the inquiry was Sally Tucker Woodbury, chair of the Romany Gypsy Advisory Group for the south west. She slammed MP James Grey for his comments he made to the inquiry on Tuesday. She said: "It is a disgrace someone in his position is allowed to talk about gypsies in this way."
Speaking on Tuesday, planning expert Simon Chambers said that, although it was not council policy to allow gypsies who breached planning laws to stay, enforcing their immediate removal had not happened in similar cases.
8:59am Thursday 10th July 2008
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CommentPosted by: shed, vale of pewsey on 9:33am Thu 10 Jul 08
Aaaah, she'll be after some compensation then? poor old soul.
When will the gazette and the resy of the bleedin hearts stop referring to this rabble as "Gipsys" beccause they aint Romany. They are itinerant scrap metal dealers, asphalters roofing scammers.
I love the bit about"it not being in our nature to do that"
yeh right.
Aaaah, she'll be after some compensation then? poor old soul.
When will the gazette and the resy of the bleedin hearts stop referring to this rabble as "Gipsys" beccause they aint Romany. They are itinerant scrap metal dealers, asphalters roofing scammers.
I love the bit about"it not being in our nature to do that"
yeh right.
Posted by: mjhudston, Chippenham, Wiltshire on 7:49pm Thu 10 Jul 08
[quote][bold]shed[/bold] wrote:
Aaaah, she'll be after some compensation then? poor old soul. When will the gazette and the resy of the bleedin hearts stop referring to this rabble as "Gipsys" beccause they aint Romany. They are itinerant scrap metal dealers, asphalters roofing scammers. I love the bit about"it not being in our nature to do that" yeh right.[/quote] Lets get something set on the record first. These people are not gypsys. They are travellers who miss apropriate the gyps name for their own needs.
The origional romanies, would never trespass, steal or cause problems withthe people they come into contact with.
The travellers at mintey and many other sites, have moved onto their sites with out the proper permissions. What on earht gives them the right to not obay the laws of this land.
If you want to settle, then obay the laws, and become decent members of society, and stop moaning like spoilt children when your not alowed to break the law. Which by the way is what you are doing by remaining on the site at mintey.
shed wrote:
Aaaah, she'll be after some compensation then? poor old soul. When will the gazette and the resy of the bleedin hearts stop referring to this rabble as "Gipsys" beccause they aint Romany. They are itinerant scrap metal dealers, asphalters roofing scammers. I love the bit about"it not being in our nature to do that" yeh right.
Lets get something set on the record first. These people are not gypsys. They are travellers who miss apropriate the gyps name for their own needs.
The origional romanies, would never trespass, steal or cause problems withthe people they come into contact with.
The travellers at mintey and many other sites, have moved onto their sites with out the proper permissions. What on earht gives them the right to not obay the laws of this land.
If you want to settle, then obay the laws, and become decent members of society, and stop moaning like spoilt children when your not alowed to break the law. Which by the way is what you are doing by remaining on the site at mintey.
Posted by: gypsysally, taunton on 10:40pm Thu 10 Jul 08
Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people.
AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN,
IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT,
SALLY TUCKER WOODBURY
Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people.
AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN,
IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT,
SALLY TUCKER WOODBURY
Posted by: spooks, calne on 11:42am Fri 11 Jul 08
[quote][bold]gypsysally[/bold] wrote:
Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people. AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN, IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT, SALLY TUCKER WOODBURY[/quote] true gypsie respect people and there belongs ,they travel,they are a joy to have in ones town,they leave no mess.
so called traverlers have no respect for people ,nick every thing,create such a mess like crapping all over sports fields,expect people to bend over backwards for them,and get every thging for nothing,there kids run riot around the place.
and at whos cost?
OURS ,who work and pay taxes who dont use loop hole to avoid the taxes.
surly the idea of being a traverler is to travel not stay in a static home.
i dont blame minty for not wanting them there why should they?
all traverlers should get off there backsides join the real world of work,taxes and contrabuting to the community ,if they did that people would be tolable of them.
www.calnetalk.com
gypsysally wrote:
Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people. AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN, IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT, SALLY TUCKER WOODBURY
true gypsie respect people and there belongs ,they travel,they are a joy to have in ones town,they leave no mess.
so called traverlers have no respect for people ,nick every thing,create such a mess like crapping all over sports fields,expect people to bend over backwards for them,and get every thging for nothing,there kids run riot around the place.
and at whos cost?
OURS ,who work and pay taxes who dont use loop hole to avoid the taxes.
surly the idea of being a traverler is to travel not stay in a static home.
i dont blame minty for not wanting them there why should they?
all traverlers should get off there backsides join the real world of work,taxes and contrabuting to the community ,if they did that people would be tolable of them.
www.calnetalk.com
Posted by: shed, vale of pewsey on 4:43pm Fri 11 Jul 08
[quote]Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people.
AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN,
IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT,
SALLY TUCKER WOODBUR[/quote]
what a load of c*ck, and written in true didikoi illiteracy.
Scum all of them
Let me get one thing strate these people are romani gypsies thay are britesh Romanies, Travellers are Irish people.
AND WHO SAID ANY OF THESE FAMILIES HAVE STOLEN??,OR COUSED PROBLEMS, IN MY EXPERIANCE PEOPLE IN THE SETTLED COMMUNITY FEEL THAY CAN SAY AND DO WHAT THAY WANT WHEN GYPSIES OR IRISH TRAVELLERS ARE CONSERNED AND IT IS EXEPTABLE, THE FACT YOU SAY GYPSIES NEVER TRESPASS YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE THAY HAVE STOPED ON BYROADS AND ANY LAND THAY COULD FOR 100 OF YEARS IN BRITEN,
IF WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THESE FAMILIES MOVING ON TO THE SITE WITHOUT PLANNING AND BRAKING THE LAW BY DOING THIS , PLEASE TELL ME WHEN I APPLYED FOR PLANNING FOR MY HOME THE CORRECT WAY I STILL HAD THE SAME TREETMENT THESE FAMILIES RECIVED,IT IS ONE FACT THAY ARE GYPSIES AND THAT IS IT,
SALLY TUCKER WOODBUR
what a load of c*ck, and written in true didikoi illiteracy.
Scum all of them
Posted by: gypsysally, taunton on 6:30pm Sat 12 Jul 08
And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day
And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day
Posted by: spooks, calne on 9:14pm Sat 12 Jul 08
[quote][bold]gypsysally[/bold] wrote:
And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day[/quote] look forward to it and while you are at it you can kiss my rectum.
for it to be racial you have to prove that infact we are incorrect well prove it cos you cant, they are all lowlifes.
do what your ment to do and travel .out of the uk.
gypsysally wrote:
And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day
look forward to it and while you are at it you can kiss my rectum.
for it to be racial you have to prove that infact we are incorrect well prove it cos you cant, they are all lowlifes.
do what your ment to do and travel .out of the uk.
Posted by: mary hunt, wootto bassett on 6:19pm Sun 13 Jul 08
[quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]gypsysally[/bold] wrote: And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day[/quote] look forward to it and while you are at it you can kiss my rectum. for it to be racial you have to prove that infact we are incorrect well prove it cos you cant, they are all lowlifes. do what your ment to do and travel .out of the uk.[/quote] HOW DARE YOU
meet me i will prove to you i have never stole or thived how dare you say that
i was born in swindon and live here 34 years
the fact is whether you like it or not is that there is not enough room on hay lane site i say this becuse to my knowledge its the only one in swindon when there children grow up there not aloud to be on with thier perants something about the council only letting one caravan on one plot
so you see now you have a genaratoin with nowere to go
there are no council sites if you could afford to buy land the council would not past it because of pepole like you!
i would think you would still have somthing to say if we all moved in a council house near you
this prob will not go away
so please give me a time when you would meet me and i will explain a few things
spooks wrote:
gypsysally wrote: And you seem like a lovley person and thay say us Romani Gypsies are rude take a look in the miror, i have printed this letter and yes i may be alitret as i did not go to school but i work with the racial equlity and i am also on the police diversaty team at porteshead i am shor thay will find out who you are as this is so racial it will make my day
look forward to it and while you are at it you can kiss my rectum. for it to be racial you have to prove that infact we are incorrect well prove it cos you cant, they are all lowlifes. do what your ment to do and travel .out of the uk.
HOW DARE YOU
meet me i will prove to you i have never stole or thived how dare you say that
i was born in swindon and live here 34 years
the fact is whether you like it or not is that there is not enough room on hay lane site i say this becuse to my knowledge its the only one in swindon when there children grow up there not aloud to be on with thier perants something about the council only letting one caravan on one plot
so you see now you have a genaratoin with nowere to go
there are no council sites if you could afford to buy land the council would not past it because of pepole like you!
i would think you would still have somthing to say if we all moved in a council house near you
this prob will not go away
so please give me a time when you would meet me and i will explain a few things
Posted by: spooks, calne on 6:31pm Mon 14 Jul 08
hardley a bloody traverler then if you have been in swindon 34 years.
You are a disgrace to the true gypsies.
www.calnetalk.com
hardley a bloody traverler then if you have been in swindon 34 years.
You are a disgrace to the true gypsies.
www.calnetalk.com
Posted by: mary hunt, wootto bassett on 7:21pm Mon 14 Jul 08
you silly little man
please if you got somthing to say get your facts right
if you go away in a caravan dose this make you a gypsy?no
just because we dont travel anymore dose not make us non gypsys
we are born gypsys and have growed up in caravans it dosent mean i want to live in a house with someone like you next door
not very nice is it
so next time think before you insult
you silly little man
please if you got somthing to say get your facts right
if you go away in a caravan dose this make you a gypsy?no
just because we dont travel anymore dose not make us non gypsys
we are born gypsys and have growed up in caravans it dosent mean i want to live in a house with someone like you next door
not very nice is it
so next time think before you insult
Posted by: mary hunt, wootto bassett on 7:26pm Mon 14 Jul 08
by the way every one keeps on about planning permisson
the council cant find anywere becuse of angry resadints dont want us nowere near them
we will not just go away
things have changed over the years
most now play tax
and like it or not have as much rights as anybody else
by the way every one keeps on about planning permisson
the council cant find anywere becuse of angry resadints dont want us nowere near them
we will not just go away
things have changed over the years
most now play tax
and like it or not have as much rights as anybody else
Posted by: spooks, calne on 7:51pm Mon 14 Jul 08
still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
Posted by: mary hunt, wootto bassett on 8:12pm Mon 14 Jul 08
[quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote:
still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.[/quote] racist or what
mr spooks
you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are
a racist
if those comments are not then i dont know what is
spooks wrote:
still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
racist or what
mr spooks
you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are
a racist
if those comments are not then i dont know what is
Posted by: spooks, calne on 8:33pm Mon 14 Jul 08
[quote][bold]mary hunt[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.[/quote] racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is[/quote] sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t.
sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.
mary hunt wrote:
spooks wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is
sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t.
sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.
Posted by: Decks, swindon on 8:48pm Mon 14 Jul 08
[quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]mary hunt[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.[/quote] racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is[/quote] sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t. sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.[/quote] For some that does'nt give a s-h-i-t you seem to be replying to the remarks on here .
I am not a traveller but i do know some and i have met them through work where they are nothing like you are saying .I dont doubt that there is bad in there group just like there is in ours.
I must say that you put us to shame as we dont all think racist towards travellers and gypsies and at the moment i have problems with drug taking scum within in the housing communitys who are steal from the own to feed there habit .....seeing as you must have time to preach on here why dont you go down to your local council estates and try and talk some sense into our youths who are killing them selves and our country with the drugs knives and stealing from everyone.
And weather you like it or not travellers and gypsies are here to stay and you ignorant man they have been for years long before you where born and you are what you are from blood not where you live or where you move to .....
spooks wrote:
mary hunt wrote: spooks wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is
sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t. sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.
For some that does'nt give a s-h-i-t you seem to be replying to the remarks on here .
I am not a traveller but i do know some and i have met them through work where they are nothing like you are saying .I dont doubt that there is bad in there group just like there is in ours.
I must say that you put us to shame as we dont all think racist towards travellers and gypsies and at the moment i have problems with drug taking scum within in the housing communitys who are steal from the own to feed there habit .....seeing as you must have time to preach on here why dont you go down to your local council estates and try and talk some sense into our youths who are killing them selves and our country with the drugs knives and stealing from everyone.
And weather you like it or not travellers and gypsies are here to stay and you ignorant man they have been for years long before you where born and you are what you are from blood not where you live or where you move to .....
Posted by: spooks, calne on 9:43pm Mon 14 Jul 08
[quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]mary hunt[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]spooks[/bold] wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.[/quote] racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is[/quote] sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t. sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.[/quote] if you love them that much let the thieving bastards live next to you.
spooks wrote:
mary hunt wrote: spooks wrote: still a bunch of low lifes who i wouldnt **** on if you were on fire.
racist or what mr spooks you have finaly showed your self up to be what you are a racist if those comments are not then i dont know what is
sorry you have mistaken me for someone who gives a s-h-i-t. sooner they ban scum traverlers the better.
if you love them that much let the thieving bastards live next to you.
Posted by: mary hunt, wootto bassett on 6:46pm Tue 15 Jul 08
you call me a theif your calling my children thiefs
good job your not silly enough to belive in gypsys curse
you got the cheek to call me scum
its you what is scum
GET A LIFE YOU RACIST SCUM
you call me a theif your calling my children thiefs
good job your not silly enough to belive in gypsys curse
you got the cheek to call me scum
its you what is scum
GET A LIFE YOU RACIST SCUM
Posted by: spooks, calne on 7:35pm Tue 15 Jul 08
YYYYAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
YYYYAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Posted by: George27, calne on 8:51pm Tue 15 Jul 08
If the gypsies have been there since 2003 (not really gypsies then?), let them stay there, as with recent debates and articles, no one else wants travellers living near them.
As for the press article, if being a traveller makes you all that ill, why bother? None of this is meant to be offensive by the way.
If the gypsies have been there since 2003 (not really gypsies then?), let them stay there, as with recent debates and articles, no one else wants travellers living near them.
As for the press article, if being a traveller makes you all that ill, why bother? None of this is meant to be offensive by the way.
Posted by: Decks, swindon on 11:51pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Romany gypsies is in your blood passed through generation to generation ...not in the status of where you live . Some people could do with understanding this and yes i would swap them anyday as my neighbours rather than the low life i have at the moment with there drugs and drink problems cause that is something i know would not happen on a gypsy site .
Romany gypsies is in your blood passed through generation to generation ...not in the status of where you live . Some people could do with understanding this and yes i would swap them anyday as my neighbours rather than the low life i have at the moment with there drugs and drink problems cause that is something i know would not happen on a gypsy site .
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